derren brown - has he the right?

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Postby Robbie » Sep 22nd, '10, 11:58



Mr_Grue wrote:Brown asked Matt where he was in his life, where he was dissatisfied, and sought to help him help himself

But he didn't, or at least not where we could see. Matt thought he was applying for some sort of DB game show. We can assume he had an interview which included a chat about his job, life situation, and ambitions -- which would be expected of a game show contestant. But we can't assume he had any kind of serious session where he took a long hard look at his life and decided what he wanted to change.

Mr_Grue wrote:It seems to me that Brown was at pains throughout the show to make it clear that all he was doing was creating opportunities for Matt, and it was down to Matt to make use of them as he saw fit.

True enough. Nobody forced Matt to do the various things he did. In fact, he was probably so dissatisfied that he only needed that one last nudge to set himself moving. It's quite possible that he would have begun making changes entirely on his own within the next few months, with something else acting as a trigger.

Mr_Grue wrote:The message of Hero wasn't "I can cure you" it was "cure thyself".

True. The overall message was basically "this is your life, it's all you've got, so don't waste it". Which is an uplifting thought, and I hope lots of viewers were inspired by it.

It comes down to personal ethics. I'm a big supporter of ends justifying means, and the whole project was done with nothing but goodwill. It's just how far you should alter someone else's free will and self-determination, even when you've got nothing but the person's best interests at heart. And this is a line you've got to draw for yourself.

Speaking entirely for myself, I'm not thrilled by the shift from mentalist to life coach, and I hope it's not a permanent change of direction. Ironically, it's a waste of Derren's talents. (At least in my opinion. He might consider it a higher calling.)

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Postby Lady of Mystery » Sep 22nd, '10, 12:02

I didn't get to see this so can't really comment on Derren but as far as readers go, I don't see anything wrong with a responsible reader. From my experience there are usually two types of people who'll see a reader, those who aren't taking things seriously and just treating it as entertainment and those who have a genuine worry. It's quite easy to spot the two different types but a good reader should treat them very much the same. Those sitters who are there because they have a worry, you do have to be more careful with but a reader can really help these people. They can offer a little glimer of hope to people who otherwise couldn't see any.

Sorry, I've probabaly veered off topic slightly..

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Postby IAIN » Sep 22nd, '10, 13:14

shut iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit lomster :wink: :D

its on 4oD, dear if you fancy it...

should a tv entertainer/mentalist be doing shows claiming he's using certain techniques and skills that he may or may not genuinely be using; to enable someone else to be "better than before"?

is it a progression from mentalism? or is it really a return to the core of it, but dressed in different clothes?

he helped someone, thats the bottom line - i would be nice to see him think about how he's treated and talked about other people though..

i am not talking about that scouse psychic lunatic, however, he needs to accept that us humans are weirdos, and if it gives closure to know that someone who has kicked the bucket is safe and happy...well...

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Postby pcwells » Sep 22nd, '10, 13:32

From what I could see the show wasn't a mentalism show. And that's why I'm really quite disinterested in it.

I think Derren's a first-rate showman and a fantastic mentalist, but Hero (and Trick or Treat, for that matter) were something very different. My best analogy for it would be 'Tonight's The Night For Guardian Readers'.

So I can't bring myself to feel passionately about it one way or the other.

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Postby .robb. » Sep 22nd, '10, 13:36

The show was about putting money in Derren's wallet.

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Postby themagicwand » Sep 22nd, '10, 14:04

pcwells wrote: 'Tonight's The Night For Guardian Readers'.


Lol. Or "Game for a Laugh" as I think I may have referred to Trick or Treat. Or was it "Beadle's About"?

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Postby Mr_Grue » Sep 22nd, '10, 14:12

I was secretly glad that Derren wasn't wearing a fake beard over the top of his real beard.

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Postby pcwells » Sep 22nd, '10, 14:17

themagicwand wrote:
pcwells wrote: 'Tonight's The Night For Guardian Readers'.


Lol. Or "Game for a Laugh" as I think I may have referred to Trick or Treat. Or was it "Beadle's About"?


You're right. Trick or Treat was definitely Game For a Laugh.

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Postby Jean » Sep 22nd, '10, 15:02

.robb. wrote:The show was about putting money in Derren's wallet.


Yes he gets paid, you could say the same thing about all of his shows.Their are easier ways for him to make money, (he could use his awesome powers to consistently win the lottery for example.)

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Postby mark lewis » Sep 22nd, '10, 15:23

I didn't see the show on the grounds that I have already seen two of them and couldn't bear them. I was screaming with boredom and wanting the commercials to come on because they were more interesting.

However I have now seen him work live to real audiences in a theatre on youtube and I concede that he is far, far, better under those circumstances. I do wish he wouldn't swear on stage or in his blog though.
Most improper and it shows a lack of class for a celebrity. Criss Angel does it too and it creates an ugly jarring note. Most improper.

But although I haven't seen the programme under discussion it makes me uncomfortable to be making a public show of someone's troubles like this. These sessions should be done in private with no publicity in the way that real psychics like myself do it. Confidentiality is the key to doing psychic readings.

What I find ironic about this discussion is that Derren's manager, (whom I am going to meet in London since he is an old friend) used to manage a spiritualist medium and organise tours for him in competition with Doris Stokes!

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Postby bmat » Sep 22nd, '10, 17:24

This is the entertainment business, and what you saw was a show.

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Postby phillipnorthfield » Sep 22nd, '10, 18:10

daleshrimpton wrote:kind of off topic, but check Derrens Blog.

he mentions a well respected magic forum, and quotes a post that i have read. ( referencing car crash television)
since ive only read about the show here, or on Bunny, it has to be one of them.

he seemed to be really upset.


It was the cafe, show that he does google himself occasionally and care what we think eh?

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=380118&forum=15

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Postby mark lewis » Sep 22nd, '10, 18:39

All entertainers are egomaniacs and I am quite they all spend as much time googling themselves as they do on stage.

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Postby SamGurney » Sep 22nd, '10, 18:44

mark lewis wrote:All entertainers are egomaniacs and I am quite they all spend as much time googling themselves as they do on stage.


Obviously though, your history would beg to differ :P

The day Derren does start listening to what Magician's think and taking it seriously, I will lose a lot of respect for him. :twisted:

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Postby mark lewis » Sep 22nd, '10, 18:47

I google myself continuosly and have just finished doing so now. After all I am a historical figure in magic and do so for the purposes of research you understand.

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