talkmagic.co.uk

by **user24** » Mar 14th, '11, 18:16

sleightlycrazy wrote:Actually, these days you don't need either...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2LRROpph0

That's not real. Please... Tell me that's not real?!

by **phillipnorthfield** » Mar 14th, '11, 18:21

It's a shame, luck plays too big a role nowadays.

P.S I love how this has become a list of things we don't like anymore

I'll just add in Hitler to prove a statistical point :p

by **Serendipity** » Mar 14th, '11, 18:21

I firmly believe that "talent" and "natural aptitude" mean essentially nothing. One of the most important lessons I ever learned was that no one got good at anything, and I mean anything, without really hard work.

There is no such thing as a naturally good singer, or dancer, or magician - it's a myth that people use to comfort themselves about why they are not good singers, or dancers, or magicians, or whatever. All the people we look up to, all the people we aspire to be like, have worked really, really hard to get where they are - but it is easier to assume they got their through talent or natural aptitude.

by **grant_m23** » Mar 14th, '11, 18:43

10,000 hours

That's all it takes

by **kolm** » Mar 14th, '11, 19:42

Oh my god

To those who think that magic is a natural talent and can't be learnt - you were able to do a pass the first time were you? You never took advise off anyone else? You honestly thought "I know what, I'll be a magician" and the next week you were doing paid gigs, and you were doing them well?

Bullsh*t. Anyone can learn magic. Anyone can learn anything, if they have the time, inclination, and access to the right teaching resources. Here's a secret for you: I learnt magic just to see if I could. To see if the theory is true. And it is

So get off your high horse. You have absolutely no right to tell people what they can and cannot do. There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone learning magic for the hell of it and not actually performing. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone doing magic badly. Even professionally, for money

by **Grimshaw** » Mar 14th, '11, 21:14

kolm wrote:So get off your high horse. You have absolutely no right to tell people what they can and cannot do. There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone learning magic for the hell of it and not actually performing. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone doing magic badly. Even professionally, for money

Good speech sir. I concur.

by **jdmagic357** » Mar 14th, '11, 21:40

[quote="kolm"]Oh my god
So get off your high horse. You have absolutely no right to tell people what they can and cannot do. There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone learning magic for the hell of it and not actually performing. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone doing magic badly. Even professionally, for money[/quote]

Spoken like one who DOES perform badly? :lol:

by **kolm** » Mar 14th, '11, 21:56

jdmagic357 wrote:Spoken like one who DOES perform badly?

I rarely perform, never professionally. I do it for the sheer joy of playing around with a coin or pack of cards. I learn sleights for the challenge and the feeling you get when you finally nail it. Not to make money

But yes, most members on here are probably better than me. But that's because they're working professionals and they practice much more than me

by **phillipnorthfield** » Mar 15th, '11, 00:08

kolm wrote:Oh my god

To those who think that magic is a natural talent and can't be learnt - you were able to do a pass the first time were you? You never took advise off anyone else? You honestly thought "I know what, I'll be a magician" and the next week you were doing paid gigs, and you were doing them well?

Of course you can't do it instantly, that's not what talent is about, you can be naturally good at something but of course you need to put the effort in. You can't seriously suggest everyone learns at the same speed can you?

kolm wrote:So get off your high horse. You have absolutely no right to tell people what they can and cannot do. There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone learning magic for the hell of it and not actually performing. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone doing magic badly. Even professionally, for money

No-one's telling people what they can or cannot do, and if you read what people have put it's actually the opposite, the argument being that people cannot tell OTHERS what to do without having tried such and such themselves.

by **Lord Freddie** » Mar 15th, '11, 00:31

Armchair magicians or hobbyists don't bother me, but the ones that never perform, but offer advice on performance and dealing with the public, yet haven't done it themselves really annoy me.
It's like beinf given driving lessons from someone who has never got into a car before. There is one particular person that does this, and his advice re: performing for the public is really misguided. If you don't know anything about it - remain silent!

by **Vanderbelt** » Mar 15th, '11, 00:34

Anyone can do anything they want for any reason they want. Simple as (Applicable laws withstanding).

I know a fantastic guitarist for example and I really do mean brilliantly good. Why does he play? Because he loves playing, loves the acheivement of bringing a great tune together. He's never performed publicly in his life. He has no interest in doing so, he just loves playing guitar.

I've seen Kolm throw a few pasteboards around over a pub table and do you know what? She's pretty good. What I love about Kolm (not that I'm declaring a romantic interest here you understand) is that she does it because she loves throwing a few pasteboards around. It's fun.

To suggest that non-public-performing magicians shouldn't be listened to or taken seriously is horrendous. Do what you love for the reasons you love it. Even if you're rubbish. Who cares? Not I.

If someone is enjoying something, be it singing, piano or magic then that's reason enough for encouragement. Let's not get bogged down with this elitist concept of 'performance art' - magic is and always should be, fun.

by **Lord Freddie** » Mar 15th, '11, 00:45

I am not saying they don't love it (god, it's hard trying to get people to understand a simple point sometimes) what I am saying is if you have NEVER performed a proper gig for complete strangers before, what criteria do you base your advice on? Ideas? Daydreams? Speculation?

I find the most useful books are those written by pros and real world performers. Some skills are only gained by hard, solid, real-world experience. Performing a few 'card tricks' down the pub for your mates is a far different world to working every table at a wedding full of strangers and justifying your huge fee.

Sorry, but advice from someone who has never done it is no advice at all.
Would you take fire-breathing lessons from someone who has never done it before? No! There's nothing wrong with hobbists. If they advise on sleights or source materials etc, that's fine, it's good advice, but not when they are telling people what works best for a performer. How would they know if they have never done it?

by **phillipnorthfield** » Mar 15th, '11, 00:53

Lord Freddie wrote:Sorry, but advice from someone who has never done it is no advice at all.
Would you take fire-breathing lessons from someone who has never done it before? No! There's nothing wrong with hobbists. If they advise on sleights or source materials etc, that's fine, it's good advice, but not when they are telling people what works best for a performer. How would they know if they have never done it?

Thankfully that quote for me at least accurately sums up the correct way of saying what we all mean.

(Well, myself at least)

I don't think anyones being personal or elitist or anything. That quote sums it up nicely, you have to have the experience to tell people what to do, and if you don't know, then don't say anything, simples.

by **Erwin** » Mar 15th, '11, 01:02

phillipnorthfield wrote:
Lord Freddie wrote:Sorry, but advice from someone who has never done it is no advice at all.
Would you take fire-breathing lessons from someone who has never done it before? No! There's nothing wrong with hobbists. If they advise on sleights or source materials etc, that's fine, it's good advice, but not when they are telling people what works best for a performer. How would they know if they have never done it?

Thankfully that quote for me at least accurately sums up the correct way of saying what we all mean.

(Well, myself at least)

I don't think anyones being personal or elitist or anything. That quote sums it up nicely, you have to have the experience to tell people what to do, and if you don't know, then don't say anything, simples.

Review the OP... he wasn't talking about taking advice from "armchair experts", he was suggesting that those blessed with the 'magic gene' should discourage anyone without that innate ability away from what they will never have the capacity to grasp. No one's being elitist or anything? :lol:

by **Jean** » Mar 15th, '11, 01:20

jdmagic357 wrote:Why do we here on this board and others assume that anyone
wanting to be a magician can be one? It seems like just in
our art, we foster such a ludicrous idea. If we were
instead dancers or singers, we would quickly filter out those
without talent pointing them to some other vocation or service.

So why do we encourage those who are obviously uninterested in working
at our craft? The secret collectors, who want nothing more than
to know how something is done? Why do we give false hope to those
who just don't get it? I can't play the piano and know that because
although interested, I suck at it plain and simple. My teachers have
said so and those who have heard me play agree. Those who would have
continued to encourage me to play would have been wasting my time.

Yet that is exactly what we do with magic. We encourage those without
talent to continue. Why? Is it to have more amateurs out there making
the pros look good? Is it because deep inside we're sadists wanting
to cause pain. Why not be honest and hopefully lead one to something they can be good at?

I just don't get? Maybe some of you do, and can explain it to me?

Am I the only one getting a 'Damian Jennings' vibe from this guy?

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