talkmagic.co.uk

I have to say I can't argue with that, Jing

There are so many things being discussed in this post.

The post that started this thread is summed up in the post in the introduction section.

Should people give advice about area of magic e.g. performing dealing with audiences when they do not perform? No.... How can they and be taken seriously????

When we look at good/bad magicians we can all have different ideas in my opinion because, What is a magician? is it someone who practices magic, someone who performs to an audience, someone who performs to strangers as an amatuer or pro? It views of people can be so varied.

For me there is one important element of magic the gives everyone the right to practice and that is enjoyment. If you enjoy practicing, carry on. You may become great then again you may not. I would encourage people to try as many things in life as possible and if they enjoy it great, if not give up.

Nic

dup wrote:I know that I can't be impressed by a french drop anymore, or a coin bending, and I find that a little sad because I remember how overwhelmed I was when I saw a mentalist do those things for the first time.

Hi Dup.

Have you seen the first Wizard Product Review from Blackpool ? Near the end Richard Osterland does a coin bend which looks fantastic - you'd be forgiven for thinking it was real.
I am rarely fooled by a magic effect, but twice in the past few weeks I have been. First was by an effect of Dale Shrimptons, the second was Mr Osterlands coin bend

jim

Hi Jim,

I haven't seen it yet. The best coin-bending I saw was by Banachek in his Psi Series, and that was a great trick.
The problem is I know it's a trick. I've lost the innocence that allowed me to sit back, relax and be astounded. I'm treating it now more as an intelectual riddle. It's an entertainment of a different sort, but sometimes I wish I had my magical innocence back.

I've never been 'naturally' good at anything, however by having the right attitude, working hard and seeking out the best teachers I have done well at everything I have decided to do well at.

I am of the opinion that I can do well at anything I decide to. If you have the right attitude you can too.

wasnt the original question based around that should we encourage people who are no good to continue practicing, so
I would say that to follow this argument through to its logical conclusion that the end game would result in just one single magician being the best and therefore having to discourage every other magician who was not up to his level. In the same thought pattern there would only ever be one good musician in the world, one good dancer, one poet etc. etc.

So therefore the premise that someone is good or bad is subjective, even if they are bad, they might be so bad that they might be good to some people

ajaxjones wrote:So therefore the premise that someone is good or bad is subjective, even if they are bad, they might be so bad that they might be good to some people

The amazing Ballantine was just such a person. The older folks will remember him for McHale's Navy TV show.

However what I'm talking about is more of a standardization of what is considered good by those who watch it. Most people know what they like, that which we like we consider good. A bad performance, would be one we didn't like.

Pretty simple huh?

Now, all though I suppose some people who have troubles with physical control of their hands might not be able to play piano, or someone who is hard of hearing or seeing, I think most all other people could do it well if they really learned about it and practiced it. I think many people could perform magic if they learned about it and practiced it.

Tommy Cooper

I think it's fair to say that anyone can do almost anything to a reasonable level with sufficient practice. Exceptional individuals may be naturally blessed, not with ability out of the box neccessarily but with an exceptional drive so will practice more. Even sports folks with natural ability only become exceptional with a hell of a lot of training.

Howard Thurston for example, incredible card magician, spent two to three hours a day in front of a mirror just practising, no tricks, just shuffles and sleights to perfect his art from every angle.

However, magic is quite unique in that it's a performing art with an enormous amount of technique and skill required along with the performance. There are magicians I have no doubt who are incredibly skilled but unable to 'perform', highly technical, well rehearsed but flat and those that the quality of their performance and patter are such that the magic is almost immaterial. The latter may appear to another magician to be sloppy and unpractised, whilst the former may appear to lay-people to be dull, should both be discouraged because of these faults?

William Robinson was a flat performer by all accounts, incredibly knowedgable, technically brilliant but flat. He invented a stage persona of a silent Chinese magician called Chung Ling Soo and the rest is history.

So should we discourage magicians we perceive as bad? No we should encourage them as a magic community to be better. If someone is able to stand up in front of people and perform they should be able to take honest constructive advice. They obviously enjoy doing it, we shouldn't take that away from them by discouraging them just because they are currently in our eyes 'bad' because they can be better, ultimately we all can.*


*Before anyone asks, I've never performed for a paying audience, magic for me is an enjoyable hobby (but like my other hobbies one I take very seriously) so my comments should be seen in that light and given the appropriate 'weight' based on your viewpoint.

If anyone can be anything then nobody is special and we should all just give up doing anything since it's all just a matter of will.

That's why there was only one Houdini, Bruce Lee, Picasso, Pavarotti, Einstein, Edison and the many other greats. If we could all be them, then I contend we would be.

Truth is most people are just average and won't ever be great. It's a fact, and the list of great people proves it.

But believe what you will and waste your time trying to be great, only to find out after much trial and error that the best you will be is mediocre. On that day of realization, is when you will have reached self awareness.

If someone puts in the effort and the time then the sky's the limit. The reason why the greats are great is because each one of them didicated their life to what they did and gave something new to their field.

With a little time and dedication, you, me and anyone else can do the same. None of those people got to where they did without working for it.

People can practice in front of a mirror all they like, but one thing they can't buy from a magic shop is a personality.
The greatest and most successful magicians have a huge amount of charisma which differentiates them from your average, monotone finger-flinger. You can't learn charisma off of a DVD.

I'll bite. I've just realised the irony of jdmagic's signature

jdmagic357 wrote:If anyone can be anything then nobody is special and we should all just give up doing anything since it's all just a matter of will.

Surely if you know you can do something with enough will you won't give up?

That's why there was only one Houdini, Bruce Lee, Picasso, Pavarotti, Einstein, Edison and the many other greats. If we could all be them, then I contend we would be.

Why are you ignoring all the other great magicians, martial arts actors, painters, singers, scientists and inventors? Are Teller, Jackie Chan, Da Vinci, Tim Berners-Lee terrible? Does that mean we'll never see anyone like them again?

Truth is most people are just average and won't ever be great. It's a fact, and the list of great people proves it.

Well, yes, by definition most people are about average. Google "Bell curve"

Google "Bell curve"

I accidently googled something else!

You can't learn charisma off of a DVD.

Real magic you learn only by going out and doing it. I wonder how many times I can repeat myself on this forum.