talkmagic.co.uk

Grimshaw wrote:I thought it was great. I was all set to hate it on the strength of Derren's last few shows...The Events have all but been wiped from my mind, never mind Hero at Cruising Altitude.

I think they did a great thing in picking that Nathan fellow, who was not afraid to say when he felt put upon, and I also think he had the smarmy smile of a preacher out for your cash too.

You guys can argue about the ethics behind it all you like, fundamentally it was good television, which is what Channel 4 pay Derren to create.

Precisely!!!

Mike Danata

A faith healer in my opinion, is a totally different animal then someone doing psychic readings. Most readers are not going to give advice on health issues other then the fact that they should seek out the advise of a professional. And on the subject whether they are helping people to go out and archive what they want or are just conning people out of their money is in my opinion a lost argument. Apparently they are providing some good for their sitters or then wouldn't have much return business. As for faith healers they are no more then people that prey on their subjects in the weakest hours of their lives. This, in my eyes, should be judged legally as manslaughter. At least with an assisted suicide the subject knows thats whats going to happen.

As for why it's our problem to make this kind of disclosure on these kind of frauds and not the authority's. If you keep problems out in the view of the public then the public will demand something be done about it. And we are not the only people making un maskings of these kind of frauds to the public. Some psychologists, skeptics, and others are also working to do so.

Even if Brown made one or two people question and rethink their stand on the subject then he has made a difference. Shouldn't it be the job of anyone of good moral ethics, that is aware of how these con artist ruin lives to fight against them?

phillipnorthfield wrote:Whilst I agree these people need to be dealt with in the harshest possible way. My views on who does it have changed, I wonder why Magicians/Mentalist's feel the need to be the ones to challenge phony psychics. I know it's an allied art but surely it would be more beneficial if genuine authoritys were involved in this frankly illegal practice rather than Magicians exposing everything. Like others have pointed out is rather inefficient. I'd love to hear peoples thoughts on why we think it's our problem because I really don't see it as 'our' battle.

It's our battle because the authorities don't always do as they should. It is not just our battle; scientists are also exposing the truth about these chancers.

Recently here in Ireland a very well known and respected doctor conned many patients out of thousands by flashing coloured lights at them instead of treating their cancers. We all knew for more than a decade what was going on, but it took years before he was put out of business. I don't think he did more than a few hours in jail.

It's up to us all to do our bit, and if Derren can make a few quid and provide an interesting show while doing his bit, I have no problem with that.

I agree Tony!!!

I also agree with Tony but I think an interesting idea raised in the show is that Christians should also take part in the fight. I may not be Christian but I can clearly see how these faith healers are blaspomouse no matter which way you look at it.

sleightlycrazy wrote:Just to stir up some thought/trouble, what would you guys think if the faith healers left their marks genuinely feeling better about themselves and their health?

Doesn't matter it's still wrong. People who are sick and then think they're healed won't usually drop dead in their sleep. They'll get sick again and crash, with less time and money to make preparations, at best a shattered faith and at worst thinking Gods forsaken them. And If any of them do die suddenly their family will suffer.

This isn't like Tarot readings or seances, there's no grey areas here the best case scenario of a fraudulent healer is that they're self deluded and mean well but are still causing harm.

Exposing these people is a good thing. However, The Cook Report did it better.

I really liked Steve Martin's movie, "Leap of Faith", which covers the same subject and does a similar expose.

Agreed with Tony.

So now all faith healers target the terminally ill and cause their marginally expedited demise by instructing them to cease their conventional treatment 'cos Derren said so? At least the mediums can breath easy for a week or two, you go for it young crusaders.

Exposure on C4 is irrelevant. As sleightlycrazy points out, it's already the subject of Hollywood comedy.

Did it occur to anyone that the only reason the show made such a big deal about the leg-stretching was because it was the only parlour trick they actually managed to capture on tape being performed? They managed to get about 40 people into their theatre at the end of their six month project - I don't think it really qualifies as blowing the lid off anything.

I found the show entertaining, but that's as far as it goes. He made an entertaining TV show. Can we get back to calling psychic entertainers Satanists now?

I really don't get where all this hostility is coming from. Yes Erwin faith healers exploit the terminaly ill, they also may exploit the slightly sick I didn't need Derren to tell me that. And I'm not one to psychic bash just because 'It's not scientific'. When I perform magic I claim occult powers, not psychology I'm far from a brownie. What I thought was brilliant about this show was that Derren was uniting with the religious people to take on a real evil.
Why does it always have to be religious V.S scientific? Why is this distinction always there? I know the religious side started the fight but we don't have to get sucked into it. Religion and science can co-exist. And yes people have exposed fraudulent healers before, but many layman aren't aware of this. Just like most layman think mentalism is something new.

What seems so bizzare is that I think everyone here has said they find the show entertaining (except for freddie) but take some sort of issue with a perceived attack on their way of life.

Jean Eugene Roberts wrote:What seems so bizzare is that I think everyone here has said they find the show entertaining (except for freddie) but take some sort of issue with a perceived attack on their way of life.

Not me I liked it and don't have any issue with the program or the performers in it.

No I know not everyone felt this way just some people and it baffles me.

Who has taken issue with a perceived attack on their way of life? I haven't read that in this thread at all.

Maybe I'm just misreading it.

OK, so back to the plot...

I would add my thoughts but I had to be out that night and have recorded the show. As is typical at Mandrake Mansions, there seems to be no 'window of opportunity' where I can get at the VCR and watch the programme !