talkmagic.co.uk

Tomo wrote:

Wukfit wrote:Another observation... you know those "Jesus loves me" stickers you see on the back of cars?

How come the cars are always old and falling apart, surely if Jesus loved them that much he'd buy them a nice car?

Ah, come on, mate. It's who's in the car with them that matters, not what you think they should be driving.

Hey I've got the s*** car... maybe I should get the sticker?

My personal fave is the "Jesus is my homeboy" - might have to get me one of those...

lol

nickj wrote:We are making an observation from the given standpoint that we exist; if the rules had been any other way then we wouldn't and so we wouldn't be able to make thae observations in the first place!

And who is to say that, with a completely different set of rules, in a completely different kind of universe where even the elementray particles are different that there is not a way in which life could exist?

One ideas that keeps coming up in this situation is that of how nearly impossible it would be for the universe to come into existance as it did. Which of course always makes me think about the old line, 'Its highly improbable, but not impossible'.
If it hadn't happened then we wouldn't be able to talk about it - however it did and ironcially here we are discussing how it couldn't possibly have happened!

Mark Smith wrote:
One ideas that keeps coming up in this situation is that of how nearly impossible it would be for the universe to come into existance as it did. Which of course always makes me think about the old line, 'Its highly improbable, but not impossible'.
If it hadn't happened then we wouldn't be able to talk about it - however it did and ironcially here we are discussing how it couldn't possibly have happened!

But are you sure we're all really here. It is of course possible that we're all part of some kid's whacky magic-related nightmare! And when he wakes up, we all disappear.

I think there was a twilight Zone along those lines once. Or was it a warning...?

nickj wrote:MacBeth, are those things you feel that you would not do if you weren't Christian?

Nick before I became a Christian my style of humour was also a lot more "in your face" if you know what I mean. Becoming a Christian has meant that my conscience has become a little more sensitive to others.

Fair enough, that was what confused me; it was a conscious improvement when you became religious rather than a feeling that you wouldn't bother if you weren't.

Faith, belief or, as the gnostic's would say "Knowing" are all aspects of transformational thought regardless of what it is we may be crediting i.e. God, Goddess, the Great Spirit, The Force, et al... it's all one in the same thing and it's just down right rediculous for us to constantly do battle and debate of something we all embrace and lend support to in our own way (yes, I'm including the more cynical, antheistic and analystic in that statement in that you "believe" in humankind... an idea that's not so far from Buddhism.)

In my "tradition" it is said that we each progress and embrace spiritual ideas at varied levels. That is to say, some of us require the orthodoxy and dogma along side the rituals of pomp & circumstance in order to elicit from within ourselves that psychological connection (identification) with the IS. Yet, there are those like me who gain a much stronger sense of communion with that Greatness, whatever it may be, by taking a walk along side a softly flowing stream or sitting in the park watchig the people and the critters just being who and what they are.

What is important in all of this is the transformation in the self our faith permits.

Nearly a quarter century ago I was a strung out coke-head and Hollywood whore-boy all because (as I've seen retrospectively) "God had thrown me away"... in truth, it was the narrow-minded folks that follow a peculiar aspect of psuedo-christianity in which they gain permission to hate, to reject, to persecute and rile any and all persons that don't adhere to their way of thinking. In other words, we owe it to ourselves to re-define what it means when we claim to be a "Christian" or "Buddhist" or whatever... there are many differnt kinds of each; some benevolent and others rife with justified (via the scriptures) reasons for hate and militant action.

As one that's felt the blunt end of the christian clubbing of what "they" define as being non-christian and "unworthy" I find that my skin simply crawls to hear people loudly boast that they are CHRISTIANS yet, I can step back applaud those that preface such a testimony in saying that they have chosen to adhere to the examples given them by Jesus vs. the opnions and dictates of ministers, bishops, cardnals & popes for this is not the same as institutionally based "faith" -- it's not a facade but rather a more inherent and transformative connection to the real.

My faith -- my acceptance of a Higher Power that is not constricted by some book or the opinions of men (especially me) is what allowed me to know freedom from those things that once ruled my life; it is this rapport that has opened new doors to me as others became closed; and it is this connection that gives me hope -- knowledge -- in the fact that our world is changing, albeit slowly, towards a greater more Utopian state. It is not going to happen over night but it is happening and each one of you can be a part of that transformation if you want to be (check at http://www.zaadz.com or http://www.craigbrowning.zaadz.com for more details).

Let's set aside our labels and just be human beings that are inspired by "God" in its many forms and how that empowers us to be more than just another mortal taking up room on the planet.

I think my Christian faith definately has an influence on my magic. I like doing Gospel Magic but I do secular magic as well. Often I'll have a Gospel version and a secular version for the same trick or illusion. As a Christian, I see this as using my God-given talent to glorify God and His Kingdom by reaching people for Christ through Gospel magic and by just simply enteratining people. That's one of the reasons why I love magic is because there is so many facets to it.

Iam christian to. Iam a Jehovah's witness. I havnt se nothing that this haved influed my magic.

Mark Smith wrote:One ideas that keeps coming up in this situation is that of how nearly impossible it would be for the universe to come into existance as it did. Which of course always makes me think about the old line, 'Its highly improbable, but not impossible'.
If it hadn't happened then we wouldn't be able to talk about it - however it did and ironcially here we are discussing how it couldn't possibly have happened!

That reminds me of the old proof that it's impossible to play poker - whatever hand you're dealt, the chances of getting that particular one are so improbable that it's nigh on impossible to get any hand at all!

Kati

katrielalex wrote:the old proof that it's impossible to play poker - whatever hand you're dealt, the chances of getting that particular one are so improbable that it's nigh on impossible to get any hand at all!

That sounds very much like the logic in Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy!

katrielalex wrote:That reminds me of the old proof that it's impossible to play poker - whatever hand you're dealt, the chances of getting that particular one are so improbable that it's nigh on impossible to get any hand at all!

Kati

Perceptual paradox, innit. It's a bit like watching the goals in The Premiership on sunday mornings. Some of them are clearly once in a lifetime chances that just happen to come off, and yet there they are - dozens of them every week!

Is there a mathematician in the house, by the way? Are the chances of getting a particular hand 52 factorial, or is that the number of possible stacks?

I think that you cant prove anything so there is no use sticking to a specific beleif. There are never ending possibilities of how this universe was made and what happens to you when we die etc we just might not be able to explain it just yet. I also think that anything people cant explain they have to turn to something which will explain it for them which would be the 'creator of the universe' or what ever. We'r not as intelligent as you think. Think about it, we only use what 2% of our brain......just think of how much we will understand in years to come.....still not everything but as we learn new things, old beleifs die out as we then have an explanation for them (in ancient greek they used to beleive in a God of volcanoes or fire but when we realised how it worked that beleif disappeard)......we'll all just have to wait and find out at the end of the day.

magicsam87 wrote:Think about it, we only use what 2% of our brain......just think of how much we will understand in years to come.....

If you only used 2% of your brain you wouldn't be in a position to think about it, mate