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Indeed Tomo

May I also *cough* REM State *cough* suggest a book? It's the one I mention in every hypnosis thread.

Tomo wrote:

S. Lea wrote:The only thing left is hypnotism.

*cough* The Esdale state *cough*

*cough* The Esdaile state *cough* is a stage of hypnotism whereas Derren Brown uses stage hypnotism.

copyright wrote:*cough* The Esdaile state *cough* is a stage of hypnotism whereas Derren Brown uses stage hypnotism.

I've spent a good ten minutes trying to understand how surgeon John Esdale has anything to do with stage hypnotism, but I'm still at a loss. Where's your thinking going on this?

*cough* The Esdaile state *cough* is a stage of hypnotism whereas Derren Brown uses stage hypnotism. Wink

I've spent a good ten minutes trying to understand how surgeon John Esdale has anything to do with stage hypnotism, but I'm still at a loss. Where's your thinking going on this?

I can't see your confusion, unless John Esdale is someone other than James Esdaile.

Dr. James Esdaile used hypnotism when he operated on patients in India. This was before the use of sponges soaked in ether. His work is detailed in Mesmerism in India: Its Practical Application in Surgery and Medicine. Modern proponents of Hypnotic Analgesia refer to the hypnotic state where surgery is possible as The Esdaile State, after James Esdaile.

I haven't heard of John Esdale, nor The Esdale State. I assumed you were referring to James Esdaile and The Esdaile State. The link between this and and stage hypnotism is that they rely on the same fundamental attitude in the participant and that they both involve stages, as in a particular step in a process in the case of the Esdaile State, and a raised platform in stage hypnotism. Basically it was small joke.

Possibly the confusion was mine, why were you coughing about the 'Esdale state'?

That's what I get for posting when drinking. It's James, of course. While anyone can be hypnotised to some degree, the deepest state, named after him, is reachable by the most "talented" of subjects. It involves a complete dissociation from all sensory input.

Yes, and apparently the patient is in some kind of 'waxy' catatonic state, meaning they can be positioned as if they were a wax doll. Lift up their arms and they stay in that kind of postion, etc.

Personally, I'm extremely skeptical about this kind of hypnosis. It's interesting (anthropologically and sociologically) that Esdaile got a good response in Indian patients but not in Europeon ones.

There may have been a cultural component, but then again Esdaile was operating on wounded soldiers too. I'm sure Brown said that after the subject responded to the post-hyp to return to trance in the photo booth, he said he talked to him for an hour. An hour sounds like enough time to ensure the very deepest Esdaile state - certainly in a talented subject. Techniques exist for measuring depth of trance, and if you're going to cut someone open, you really need to know how deep they've gone!

It's a possibility certainly. But an hour would also be a enough time for a stage-hypnotist could achieve the same results. The guy used in the effect could have been a subject suitable for Esdaile or a subject suitable for stage. Personally, based on what Derren Brown has said and his previous effects, I think it was the latter.

My thinking on the mini-rolls:

All 5 are indifferent. The one placed in the pocket is noted and swapped by a pickpocketting camera man (Andy Nyman?). Plenty of opportunity during close ups of eating etc. No need for stooges but derren can keep his distance.

Oohoo, the dummy stuff was good - one of the nastiest things I've seen in a long time. I loved how naturally he slips the suggestion in; the penny took a while to drop. I do wish that they could have more than just an end-title saying that Derren's volunteers are okay about it all afterwards, though. I'm sure they are, but...

ian69 wrote:My thinking on the mini-rolls:

All 5 are indifferent. The one placed in the pocket is noted and swapped by a pickpocketting camera man (Andy Nyman?). Plenty of opportunity during close ups of eating etc. No need for stooges but derren can keep his distance.

Well, the miniroll was in a done-up pocket and I would guess they might notice if a cameraman was coming that close. Also, Nyman is cowriter and executive producer, not a cameraman. Methinks the method will be glaring obvious, but just disguised so well we all miss it.

My thinking in all of this is that there are a variety of methods used to achieve things.

Derren Brown use psychological means -I believe a lot of that is not aimed just at the people involved hypnosis etc...but at us the audience - and people's desire to believe in aliens, ghosts the supernatural etc...because of that we are all thinking about the people involved and not at what was suggested to us - pure genius.

I must agree though with what someone commented on in another forum that it is becoming a real test of our believability - almost falling foul of the too perfect theory ......

Why would he need the camera man to switch the last role? One way of doing of rasor blade in chocolade roll, is essentially to use Saunders method of doing signed bill in kiwi (As explained on Martins Sanderson's excellent DVD called "corporate close-up").

My 12 year old daughter (who is VERY sharp) noticed that the two trick or treat cards have an interesting feature that so to speak turns every thing on its head!!!

Nice idea, and even if some part of the public discovers this feature, and thus workout derrens nice 2 card "force", it does not really matter since the method is very neat and fit perfectly well into Derrens image of also a bit of a trickster (besides of course being an very mysterious a person with supernatural powers).

I must say that, although I commend him for trying something new, this series, so far is a bit disappointing and a lot about nothing.
There is more of a build up to the trick rather than seeing the effect itself and as the participants are never interviewed after it seems so inconsequential.
The vent dummy last night nowhere near as interesting or funny as it seemed to be.

I found the dummy bit VERY interesting personally - much more intruiging than last week's episode. But I feel a similar way; it's the sort of thing that would have been one part of a TOTM show expanded a little bit.

Still, I really enjoyed last night's show.

The blank money was also very good .