talkmagic.co.uk

Jae I do believe it was a fair review of that particular show. Did you attend last night's performance yourself? Obviously what I wrote is subjective and with any show things like this change from night to night. Your experience of another performance on the same tour is going to be utterly different from mine. As Derren himself says, sometimes things fall flat. Energy between an audience and performer and the way things come across depends on that specific crowd. You must understand that I am not intending to review "Derren Brown, An Evening of Wonders" as a piece. I'm reviewing the performance which I saw and going by the reactions in my section of the audience.

I should also mention that I usually really enjoy Derren's work. I think that I understand and enjoy the character he creates and his style of delivery. I am commenting from the point of view of a performer (not of magic or mentalism) and as I said..I think it was an off night. There were marks that weren't quite hit which I could see working well on another nights. There were also part of the show that I really didn't think worked, which is simply a personal opinion. By all means question that opinion, argue against it and debate it..that's what forums are all about. But I think it's a bit off to suggest that I'm being hyper-critical or didn't 'get' what the show was about or the image Derren was going for, simply because my review isn't glowing.

"But I think it's a bit off to suggest that I'm being hyper-critical or didn't 'get' what the show was about or the image Derren was going for, simply because my review isn't glowing."

I think you may need to re-read my comments in this thread remembering they are only my views and subjective thoughts. We actually have aired quite similar thoughts and I'd hardly say my review would be selected as a glowing one either. There is no need for hostility or defensiveness - obviously different shows are going to be different; I felt it was worth commenting further on what those in the audience I witnessed appeared to make of things. I don't see where I suggested you missed the point in anything either. Please don't read or infer things which are not there or unintended. If I was not as clear as I could be I apologise but there really is no need to be so defensive with me.

Whether you or I intend it or not, just as with anyone who has a knowledge in something, there will be more of a critical eye cast. We do have to remember that those of us with a particular interest are not really the target audience.

I am certainly not going to enter into debate with you (or anyone) about such pedantics as it's pointless for either of us or anyone reading especially when it appears we actually agree to a large extent.


Right, back to reviewing the show...

I have a suspicion from reading threads here and elsewhere that there have been flaws in the show and presentation which have left people feeling less impressed than they expected. I believe that the very slick performance which TV can conjour has not been replicated in real life where different skill sets are called for and DB may not be as at home on the stage. It certainly seems that people are tending to voice 'concerns' (not really the right word) about the same areas of the show which would make it appear that it's not just an odd off night; though it could equally be less confidence or enthusiasm for certain effects. Without discussing this with DB or his immediate associates none of us can do anything but speculate.

I enjoyed the show as a whole and came away feeling as if I had had a good evenings entertainment but I was also a little disappointed that some of the elements were less than I'd expect from someone with his credential and one or two were not handled very well. I will admit that because I know how some of them are done or have seen them performed by others I am going to notice and be more critical, whether I intend to or not. Others may be able to take a further step back but I can't.

My view with regard audience reaction was that DB was very well received and overhearing comments during the interval and amongst some of those who went to see him at the stage door there was the expected buzz and positive puzzlement. In the performance I witnessed there was no obvious restlessness at any point (although there was a really annoying number of people to-ing and throw-ing to the toilets or wherever throughout the show!) so it's interesting that you've raised that. It would be interesting to discover if those who saw other shows during the tour noticed similar reactions. I'd be especially interested to hear comments from those that saw the early shows compared to these later ones. The original posts on the thread are all very positive rather than picking at certain aspects.

Just to conclude, Rosetinted, relax and don't take what I or anyone else says as a personal rebuke of your thoughts, opinions or comments unless we make it clear that is what they are. Life's too short to get worked up about such insignificant things. It's not as if this thread is discussing anything important like World peace, poverty etc.

It could be that as this is right at the start of the tour, things are still being tried and honed to a certain extent. In Birmingham the table twirl didn't get going as quickly as it might and the phone a friend thing almost went pear shaped as the first 3 numbers called were either not in or didn't want to join in.

The guests I took along were both very impressed and even though I could make an educated stab at the method of one or two effects, it was still good to see it done live on stage where almost anything can go wrong. Derren has said in the past that he much prefers a live event to TV as he feeds off the reactions which you just don't get on TV. What you also don't get on TV is the comedy and entertainment which the live shows provide. It sounds as though the shows since Birmingham have been varied and it's a shame as it was great fun when I saw it.

Yep, a much bigger buzz and fear factor doing something live. There were a few such hiccups in the show I saw but in part they made the whole piece more 'real', I wondered whether some of this was staged but am inclined to go with it was real life and people and props don't always do what you'd like. LOL I would not be so sure that the show has been altered significantly; probably more like my being a fussy sod who is hard to please and it being far easier to criticise someone than do as well as them! Definitely more humour than any of the TV shows have shown.
Think I'll step away from this thread now unless someone can add anything new.

hi all first post on here and just like to say i went to see derren on 8/05/07 at hull new theatre and it was fantastic with a comical more magical 1st half and a more serious more amazing 2nd half with the oricle effect which was mind blowing. i also have to add i had the pleasure of being on stage during the pendulum ideomotor effect and witnessed the table turning and tipping from the wings.
i have always been a fan of derren but seeing his live show has really made an inpression on me and am even thinking of trying to see this tour again before it ends.
i would love to hear from people who were at either of the 2 hull shows and discuss some of the incredible effects.

It's really fascinating looking through the posts and seeing the different responses that people are having to the show. I fond myself becoming all DBesque myself and trying to deduce whether the posters are predominantly working as mentalists, close-up, stage, hobbyists etc because the views from the different groups seem very polarised.

Having seen the early version of the show with some usually very intelligent lay people, my reaction to the show is based mostly on them as the target audience. To a lay audience the show I saw was pretty much flawless, with the one point I would make being that the oracle act seemed to go on a bit too long for them. (Which it would seem is a similar criticism that a number of others seem to have). The fact that some of them may have been talking in the bar afterwards and having a stab at what Derren had said to plant things in their minds doesn't mean a sloppy presentation, but merely that they have watched the TV shows and are starting to try and relate what they have seen to the explainations of other effects that have been given to them previously. Surely this is what we as performers are always doing - trying to get the audience to question how we do something but delivering effects in such a way that everything they come up with can be discounted.

One of Derren's brilliant achievements is to feed just the right amount of psychology to the TV audience so that they forget that he is also a magician and so they always work from the starting point of it being a psychology trick and often miss any physical aspects of it at all! My favourite comment I overheard from one couple after the show whilst waiting at the stage door (they were talking about the oracle act) was 'There's no way that you can tell that just from the way someone says 'Yes' - that's convinced me that they must have all been paid stooges!'. They were gutted that the whole thing had been 'staged', yet when the logistics of paying for 30 actors every night for a tour was pointed out to them by their partner the realisation sank in and they were fooled again. All thanks to the misdirection that everything is purely mental.

Yes of course some of the stuff seems too obvious to us, but then we know stuff that they don't know! How many times have you bought a packet trick from a dealer that really impressed you when you saw them demo it, and then once you've got it home found it was too obvious a method and then not used it, even though it had impressed you (as a magician no less!) less than a day earlier. The ideomotor demo for example is well known even to many lay people but it's still entertaining to watch as a little aside, and is certainly more entertaining than many suggestability selection procedures for the more challenging table demo. As for the oracle act - if you had never come across any mind reading methods would you still be thinking along the same lines given the conditions or would you be analysing everything he was saying for clues as to how he was planting suggestions?

Just a couple of things I have noticed as well similar to the opening night of the tour - someone mentioned a similar occourance in the phone demo where it took three attempts to find a person that was in and able to take part (first was not in, second guy didn't know how to use his phone and couldn't find the number!), and also the table tipping took a long time to get going with a few kicks required to get it moving (allegedly due to the floor of the stage not being as smooth as it could have been and no castors on the table itself). Just wondered if other shows had the same sort of things.

All in the spirit of healthy debate - if you didn't think bits of the show did it for you I'm not attacking this! Just think that when we post (and I am as guilty of this as anyone at times) we often forget that we aren't the ones who the show was designed for!

Just seen him live, and I was the guy who phoned someone and got them to think of numbers. I therefore have the £10 note in my possession.

Can I go into detail here? There's one thing that's nagging me a bit and I want to see what the magician fraternity think of it. I'm a HUGE Derren fan, and I love everything he does, but this is potentially a bit disappointing. Basically I want some reassurance that he is indeed a demi-god...

In case of unintentional exposure and as there are still many members who have yet to see the show, it's best not to go into too much detail here. Congrats on being up on stage for the show, I suggest you have that tenner framed !

Hi Elessar, if you were at the Liverpool performance last night I saw you call your friend - who was apparently naked - it was hilarious! That show blew me away.
To be honest I'd always been a little bit sceptical about DB on TV, great entertainer but I couldn't figure out how a lot of his stuff was done, so (arrogantly) assumed it was technological trickery and/or editing. But last night was seriously impressive. Even the bits that supposedly went wrong came back later to much aplomb. One thing I didn't really get last night though - at the end of his Oracle act when he 'falls over' - did something go wrong here? It all seemed a bit all over the place like there was a technical failure or something - any idea what was supposed to happen?

Also.. it may have been my mistake, but the audience member who ended up doing the (very spooky) table levitating routine with DB was sitting in front of me, and I didn't see him catch a frisbee, and he suddenly stood up... make of that what you will! But again I'm not 100% sure about that, the lighting was very dim.

Fides wrote:Hi Elessar, if you were at the Liverpool performance last night I saw you call your friend - who was apparently naked - it was hilarious! That show blew me away.
To be honest I'd always been a little bit sceptical about DB on TV, great entertainer but I couldn't figure out how a lot of his stuff was done, so (arrogantly) assumed it was technological trickery and/or editing. But last night was seriously impressive. Even the bits that supposedly went wrong came back later to much aplomb. One thing I didn't really get last night though - at the end of his Oracle act when he 'falls over' - did something go wrong here? It all seemed a bit all over the place like there was a technical failure or something - any idea what was supposed to happen?

Also.. it may have been my mistake, but the audience member who ended up doing the (very spooky) table levitating routine with DB was sitting in front of me, and I didn't see him catch a frisbee, and he suddenly stood up... make of that what you will! But again I'm not 100% sure about that, the lighting was very dim.

I think he was meant to faint - I think his point was that that's how the old Oracle acts would end their shows.

I've seen everything Derren's done, and have seen him live twice before, and yesterday was the ebst thing I've ever seen him do. Absolutely brilliant.

I just got the impression something else was supposed to happen: the music came in briefly, the curtain didn't fall properly, and you could see stage crew gesticulating furiously through the curtain. And the silence went on for a while.
Still, absolutely amazing show, I'm tempted to go back again to see how different the performances are. (but that takes the fun out of it a bit I guess).
I did think your mate was going to blow his top when you asked him "what are you wearing"..!

And presumably the trick you were a part of is different every night, because that tenner's serial number is obviously unique. very impressive.

And the bit about the 'Chinese Student' - is there any way he could have known that in advance?

Fides wrote:I just got the impression something else was supposed to happen: the music came in briefly, the curtain didn't fall properly, and you could see stage crew gesticulating furiously through the curtain. And the silence went on for a while.
Still, absolutely amazing show, I'm tempted to go back again to see how different the performances are. (but that takes the fun out of it a bit I guess).
I did think your mate was going to blow his top when you asked him "what are you wearing"..!

And presumably the trick you were a part of is different every night, because that tenner's serial number is obviously unique. very impressive.

And the bit about the 'Chinese Student' - is there any way he could have known that in advance?

None whatsoever. Obviously I did tell him while on stage...I wonder if it would have still have ended up in the sealed and locked box if I hadn't mentioned it?

The fact he isn't coming to London or anywhere that near London (oxford is nearest me thinks) still makes me feel sad inside

>Also.. it may have been my mistake, but the audience member who
>ended up doing the (very spooky) table levitating routine with DB was
>sitting in front of me, and I didn't see him catch a frisbee, and he
>suddenly stood up... make of that what you will! But again I'm not 100%
>sure about that, the lighting was very dim

.

I was one of the 10 who got up last night for the pendulum/table scene. A frisbee landed in my lap and the people sitting next to me didn't even notice until i waved it about. Those things are not easy to see

greedoniz wrote:The fact he isn't coming to London or anywhere that near London (oxford is nearest me thinks) still makes me feel sad inside

Why? Birmingham is 1 hour on the train now and even Manchester is just 2. Oxford is almost the suburbs!