talkmagic.co.uk

Signed

I think that the exposure sites are good in moderation, Many people , such as my self, learned basic magic tricks from youtube, many children wanting to get into magic simply can't afford to pay the £20 for a tutorial DVD and parents may think this is a trivial hobby that would fade away in time.
If you don't want an effect you've made ruined dont tell anyone incl. magicians.
On the flip side most of the exposure vids are not very good and usually dont go into the detail of a book or DVD.

TheAlkhemist07 wrote:I think that the exposure sites are good in moderation, Many people , such as my self, learned basic magic tricks from youtube, many children wanting to get into magic simply can't afford to pay the £20 for a tutorial DVD and parents may think this is a trivial hobby that would fade away in time.
If you don't want an effect you've made ruined dont tell anyone incl. magicians.
On the flip side most of the exposure vids are not very good and usually dont go into the detail of a book or DVD.

I'm sorry but that's bull. My parents never really supported me when i started doing magic but i did jobs around the house and spent my pocket money on what i enjoyed doing, without asking a single penny of them. There are alot of tricks i would like to buy that are way out of my price range but i wouldn't go to you tube to see how its done, its just wrong.

TheAlkhemist07 wrote:If you don't want an effect you've made ruined dont tell anyone incl. magicians.

And this justifies theft?

Creators should feel able to release their material without having to worry about unethical, thieving tricksters ripping them and their material off and posting it for all to see.

Just think where magic would be without creators sharing their work, without the offerings of the likes of Vernon, Marlo, Carlyle etc...

Signed. Even though I know zero magic tricks

I'm sorry, but I can't sign it. For one, I wouldn't be here today if it weren't for exposure. Yes, I found out how some tricks were done through what some might see as disrespectful methods. So what happened? Well, it piqued my curiosity so much that I went out and found some better stuff. Then I emailed a friend who I knew was into card magic, and he recommended RRTCM and Born to Perform. So I bought them. Then I joined up here, and bought some more stuff. To cap it all, I went out and bought the original product that I had pirated because I wanted to have the original and do things right (it was Ellusionist's How To Do Street Magic if you're interested). And now I want to do things right, and would never pirate, steal, lie or cheat to get my hands on a magical secret that I hadn't paid for.

I truly believe that exposure is not the be all and end all that some make it out to be. Most people, if they watched that program with the Masked Magician (the name of which escapes me) would not be able to recall how most of the tricks were done an hour later. Some people such as myself would never get into magic if it weren't for this small amount of exposure to get their interest in the first place. So exposure is not all bad. Should it be limited? Of course. But to expose basic effects and the like is not bad at all, and may even be necessary to ensure that magic remains a somewhat popular hobby.

Just a tad curious as to how all you who sighned this petition started in magic... did you walk along the highstreet and proclaim
"Yea gads there is a book on magic for £30 I shall do it as a hobby"
Probably not
You were probably shown by someone selfless enough to give up one of their tricks to keep this Art going.
Just another peice of curiousity if you sighned the petition deos that mean your against people borrowing books from libraries...it is after all the same thing really as watching it on youtube or metacafe or whatever.
My last point is that this petition is bound to fail noo matter how many people sighn it.
why? It is because Youtube is owned by an American company Google Americans have this funny little thing called freedom of speech.. oddly enough the british dont. But anyway If these videos were to be banned it would be fundamentally against the right to freedom of speech and since youtube is in America They would have to adhere to that.

I've very little against exposure of basic tricks. It's when the creations of marketed effects are exposed without the consent of the creator that there are problems. I shall assume that this is what is being referred to by "TheAlkehmist07" given his mention of expensive books...

TheAlkhemist07 wrote:Just another peice of curiousity if you sighned the petition deos that mean your against people borrowing books from libraries...it is after all the same thing really as watching it on youtube or metacafe or whatever.

The comparison is flawed. Internet sites give mass exposure. A video exposing a piece of magic may have as many as 200,000 views. Tell me, do you think the magic book in your local library is taken out that many times in ten years even? Very, very doubtful.

Secondly, given the fact that it takes more effort to seek out a book in a library than it does to look around on Youtube when you're bored, borrowing a book from a library implies more than just a whim. It suggests that the person borrowing the book is quite likely to pursue the art further.

Thirdly a book in the vast majority of instances gives good advice from professionals. Proper instruction. Youtube videos very often give poor advice by inexperienced performers. With a book they can learn properly.

Finally, with reference to the more advanced and specialist books (things like Art of Astonishment etc.) these are not commonplace in libraries. However, where they are the publishers/writers do receive monetary compensation. The same is not true of Youtube.

My last point is that this petition is bound to fail noo matter how many people sighn it.
why? It is because Youtube is owned by an American company Google Americans have this funny little thing called freedom of speech.. oddly enough the british dont. But anyway If these videos were to be banned it would be fundamentally against the right to freedom of speech and since youtube is in America They would have to adhere to that.

Well yes we do have freedom of speech - you seem to be assuming that because this is largely a British forum, and the magicians on here are opposed exposure of marketed effects, then we do not/are opposed to freedom of speech? This is absurd, and you might also like to consider the implications of your 'argument'.

Just because you may have freedom of speech it does not mean you have the right to say whatever you like. There may be no laws against someone revealing a marketed effect (although things aren't always as simple as that, legally speaking) but that does not mean they have the right to.

If you're going to try and argue for exposure at least construct a proper and coherent attempt at an argument .

alkemist07 - all i did was use my brain!

went to google, and typed "UK magic shops"...and would you believe it?!

i got a list of places of where i could buy magic fairly and legally...

Are you talking about tricks, or effects, or tutorials on sleight of hand?

If we are talking about big tricks, then I agree. However, sleight of hand methods and effects should not be taken off. There is no reason for it. What's the difference between buying a 20$ book or looking it up on the internet? It will be the same people looking for the tutorial, regardless of how they do it.

Besides, people don't see a trick, and go "hey, maybe I can find out how he did that on youtube. " The only people looking for the tutorials or explanations are the people who want to perform the tricks. I.E" ME!

And as for the post above me, someone was quoted in it. Well, Google or whoever runs youtube is a PRIVATE company. That means they can show whatever they want or don't. They don't have to listen to freedom of speech.

The crucial distinction is between sleights/'public domain' tricks and magic somebody has created and is selling to try and make a living.

I'm getting real sick and tired of the ever-growing sentiment that you people can't afford the price of DVD's to get into magic, so you tube is OK, etc etc...

For heaven's sake..... MAGIC HAS EXISTED FOR HUNDREDS, THOUSANDS OF YEARS...... WAY BEFORE FREAKING DVD'S!!!!!!!

Did Merlin the Magician ask his parents to buy him the "How to do Street Magic" DVD for his birthday????

BEFORE DVD'S, THERE WAS MAGIC.

(end rant)

I have something to say about this:

I agree, I hate magic exposure. That show on FOX was outrageous.
But, if it wasnt for it, and websites on it, i wouldn't be into magic now.
I didnt use YouTube, this was back in the day where if you really wanted a video of something, you had to search for an hour to find the tiny .mpg or .wav of the file.
Now, kids go on youtube and just browse for anything, and find explanations to good, classic tricks. I was performing the Marlo Tilt to my friend at a restaurant and some punk ass 12 year old came over and started telling me how to do the marlo tilt. I put up with it and asked him if he could show me a card trick. he replied "oh, I dont do magic, i just watched something on this trick"
In conclusion: I havent found anything on youtube besides really obscure self working bad tricks and classics like card changes and Marlo Tilt and Revolver etc etc. But card changes and classic tricks is what you perform in impromptu "Dude show us a trick" situations, but, for the starting magician, they are inspiration once they see how easy some hard looking tricks are.

The whole Youtube thing doesn't bother me too much. First of all, the videos are usually of awful quality and don't actually reveal too much, but most importantly while the method may be revealed, performance technique certainly isn't.

magic isn't about the method, it's the performance. To quote an old line: It's not the trick dummy, it's you!

And Youtube certainly does not teach that. Just look at all the smart *rse kids trying to show how clever they are. It's enough to put anyone off magic.

And if all Youtube does is spawn a new generation of show off brats doing card flourishes, that's great by me. Let the rubes have their 2 minutes of fame on Youtube! It just means an old showman like me will be getting even more work!