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Postby Rufio » Nov 26th, '08, 21:58



Blapsing_Beard wrote:
yes - but that is where I also begin to wonder where if there is actually a very physical reason as to why there is a headache, the pain would go?


Hmmm... this is pretty interesting, I was discussing my interest in inpromptu hypnosis with one of my friends who wants to specialise in brain surgery and as part of his course they were actually required to study and try hypnosis - he too was aware of magnetic palms and magnetic fingers and tried it on a fellow student. I know nothing about medicine but he did mention something about the neurology of it all and it certainly sounded quite credible. Whilst the more science minded amongst us here may shed some light on this, my way of understanding it is an analogy with drugs. There's clearly a neurological effect when, for instance, narcotics alter your brain: some illegal drugs cause a physical change in your brain, whereas others (such as MDMA for instance) are not as a result of a physical change but rather some kind of "rewiring" (something to do with the gaps between receptors).

Similarly, I read somewhere, can't remember where - it could have been Anthony Jacquin's blog - that acupuncture, is not the result of a physical thing (other than needles sticking in you, obviously), but rather a neurological thing. For doctors to be actually studying this as part of their course, it definitely would be a clear indicator that this grey area (if you'll excuse the matter pun) has some substance (in a palliative care context). Part of the reason for my purchase of RIP is in addition to the possibilities fo fun in a bar context, my mum often has pains due to kidney malfunction, and the idea of pain alleviation is one that I find quite significant and valuable. I for one find it incredibly interesting if initially I did find myself sceptical, even at the point of reading up to the Set Piece chapter, which is something I would never considered had I not read RIP. Again, continuing the drugs theme, it has certainly opened the doors of perception for me in terms of what is possible for magic, and whilst I've yet to "successfully" hypnotise (i define "success" as something more substantial than ideomatic movements or catalepsy, which is thus far the only hypnotic pheneomona i've achieved), this book has given me the right direction and approach, and I'm therefore confident that the next milestone stage of someone "going under" will be reached.

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Postby spudgun » Nov 26th, '08, 22:04

oh beardy no....honest im sure its a bad idea!!!!!! and i kinda feel responsible for starting the pain reelief debate. Go back to giving ladies their jollies with a handshake and being invisible......i was just thinking theoretically about it because im doing a disertation on analgesia and ive added hypnosis in as a non pharmocological method........

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Postby Rufio » Nov 26th, '08, 22:09

Let's close these floodgates! Ah, nitrous oxide was aways my fave analgesic... but i digress!

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Postby spudgun » Nov 26th, '08, 22:11

did someone say MDMA...... :D




spudgun does not condone the use of MDMA unless you have parkinsons........or are in ibiza...............no really drugs are bad

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Postby Rufio » Nov 26th, '08, 22:14

Parkinsons? Ibiza? Ah, that must explain all those mass hand movements!

Similarly, Rufio does not condone the recreational use of nitrous oxide other than for pregnant mothers in childbirth

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Postby Beardy » Nov 26th, '08, 23:16

haha - I'm not saying to actually go and grab someone who is about to die! I'm still talking about the theory of doing it...you could get locked up if you tried it, through ethics and such malarky!

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"I hope to shake your hand before I die" - Derren Brown
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Postby Hodgkinson » Nov 26th, '08, 23:56

There has been talk in the past of people who have undergone surgery (how major I'm unsure) with no pain relief only hypnosis or self hypnosis as their form of pain management.
Even though this suggests it can work, it doesn't mean it would for all. As previously said some are harder to hypnotise and some "can't" be hypnotised. This could also prove troublesome with accident patients who are on a time/life scale. If hypnotism was the pain relief used and it took too long or didn't even work. then the hypnotist would (in effect) be delaying the use of conventional drugs and potentially killing the patient.
Court cases would be flying around everywhere and prison would be full of people doing really strange things to each other :shock:

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Postby Beardy » Nov 27th, '08, 02:06

Hodgkinson wrote:Court cases would be flying around everywhere and prison would be full of people doing really strange things to each other :shock:


That opens a new can of worms. Do you think that it would be possible to hypnotise a prison officer to let you go?

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Postby TargetZero » Nov 27th, '08, 08:47

As Hodgkinson wrote about surgery under Hypnosis - there was a documentary on at the beginning of the year when a Dentist put his patient under and pulled out a few teeth. During the procedure the patients was wide awake, her pulse didn't rise and she felt no pain.

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Postby MasterCyde » Nov 27th, '08, 13:31

Blapsing_Beard wrote:
Hodgkinson wrote:Court cases would be flying around everywhere and prison would be full of people doing really strange things to each other :shock:


That opens a new can of worms. Do you think that it would be possible to hypnotise a prison officer to let you go?


I was thinking that sort of thing. I feel like it isn't really possible as hypnosis technically isn't real in a way where you can't get someone to do something they don't want to do..

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Postby Magnus » Nov 27th, '08, 13:57

I was thinking that sort of thing. I feel like it isn't really possible as hypnosis technically isn't real in a way where you can't get someone to do something they don't want to do..


I'm not so sure about that... in the beginning of this thread was a link to a CCTV camera footage that showed a "hypnotist robbery" in a supermarket somewhere in Italy. The chap made the lady on the checkout hand over all the money from the register.

... but if you wanna get out of prison you might have to get past more than one guard ;)

How about getting INTO something for free... how about the next Derren Brown stage show ;) Beardy... you live close enough, don't cha?

Magnus

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Postby Jacquin » Nov 27th, '08, 14:19

Magnus wrote:
How about getting INTO something for free... how about the next Derren Brown stage show ;) Beardy... you live close enough, don't cha?

Magnus


This is something I have played around with. I did Patrick Kuffs DD to obtain the number of a free room in a hotel with the manager. I then zapped the assistant manager and told her to go and give me my room key. Strangely it was number 37.

I have quite a few strategies for getting past guards and security and queues. Although the British do love queuing this much is true.

Anthony

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Postby MasterCyde » Nov 27th, '08, 14:24

Magnus wrote:
I was thinking that sort of thing. I feel like it isn't really possible as hypnosis technically isn't real in a way where you can't get someone to do something they don't want to do..


I'm not so sure about that... in the beginning of this thread was a link to a CCTV camera footage that showed a "hypnotist robbery" in a supermarket somewhere in Italy. The chap made the lady on the checkout hand over all the money from the register.

... but if you wanna get out of prison you might have to get past more than one guard ;)

How about getting INTO something for free... how about the next Derren Brown stage show ;) Beardy... you live close enough, don't cha?

Magnus


I'm sure it would work on SOME people, but I'd like to see you go into my local shop and do it. There'd be a lump of wood sticking out your head I'm sure :twisted:

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Postby Magnus » Nov 27th, '08, 14:34

I'm sure it would work on SOME people, but I'd like to see you go into my local shop and do it. There'd be a lump of wood sticking out your head I'm sure


I put it down on my big no-no list... "don't NOT buy sharp, wooden products in supermarkets, especially not in Cardiff" :shock:

Magnus

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Postby Marvell » Nov 30th, '08, 11:38

spudgun wrote:yes this is where i think you get into sticky teritory. if you take away someones headache and he has a sub-arachnoid haemmorhage because he didny go to the doctor, then the hypnotist has effectively killed the person because they didnt seek medical attention, because they were asymptomatic. So i wouldnt go taking away headaches.........(im still evious of your powers tho :( ) but with great powers come great responibility 8)


That really is very worse case scenario. Paracetamol will take away a headache, even if it's a placebo effect. Not really much different, I'd say.

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