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I'm posting this purely as a discussion topic and I should preface what I'm going to write by saying I love the cup and balls but....

I'm not the most confident performer in the world so a couple of nights ago I thought I would take a look on you-tube and see how other people were presenting the cup and balls - both amateurs (like me) and professionals. A number of things struck me (not literally)

1. 99.999% of people were performing the Dai Vernon routine or a slight variant.
2. The same patter was used over and over again i.e. "this is the oldest trick in magic", "this dates back 2000 years", "nothing strange about these cups...apart from one passes through the other", "oh look, the wand can penetrate the cup", "there's too many things going on, there's the cups, the wand, 3 balls, me talking so....let's eliminate some of the balls" etc etc etc

I guess what I'm getting at is that it all seemed very very un-original. Does this matter to spectators? Is it only old hat to magicians? How can we make the cup and balls more original? Are these lines used through laziness or because they are tried and tested and engage the audience? Have the cup and balls had their day (I hope not!). Can anyone provide video links to routines that they think are really original? Much as I love the Tommy Wonder 2 cup routine, even he resorted to the cup through cup penetration and wand penetration. Please discuss.

Craig.

I don't know if it's wholly original, but this is my favourite version of the cups and balls- and it has a different presentational angle, away from the vernon style.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgm4wZCACYg

My favouritecups and balls is dazzo's street vups and balls which i think is really good as both the magic and the performance is amazing. He is such a funny guy and so quick witted. I think i may even attend his masterclass in cardiff on june 19th,20th and 21st. Check it out at http://www.magicweek.co.uk[/url]

Have you checked out Tommy Wonder's version? Very unique and even as a magician you won't see it coming.

I'm also a fan of cups and balls and originality is difficult to find these days.

However, specs don't worry too much about the patter in my view and are imnpressed by the visual elements that are performed well. Personally, I dislike the wand penetration but I do do the cup through cup penetration.

It's a fine balance of having too much going on or not enough.

Tommy Wonder's and David Williamson's are my favorite versions of this effect. Tommy Wonder's, like Lenoir said is very unique and unexpected. David Williamson's is very...different.

Paul Daniels's chop cup is my favorite version. It's just the epitome of what an entertaining cup routine should be.

I do agree with your choice of chop cup routine

Hey, Craggle.
I'm a big fan of Jason Latimer's routine. No talking at all, just music and magic. Here's a link if you haven't seen it already. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9ie6Tfa_zI. Even playing on a screen to a big audience it seems to go over well. Hope you like it.

kev

It's worth having a look at Bill Malone's version, that's good fun, original and very entertaining. I've been doing it for a while and it always goes down really well.

Have look for 'Jiggernaut' - cups and balls done with olives and a jigger. Great for bars and pubs and different from the usual C&B routine. Review from yonks ago at http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic1522.php

Although everyone knows about the cups and balls routine, a surprising number of people have either never seen a magician before or have not seen one for a very, very long time. The familiarity of the cups and balls can actually put these spectators at ease - familiarity can be comforting without being any less impressive or entertaining. (I have lost count how many times I have rewatched 'The Smoking Room' on DVD - and I still find a new bit to be entertained by each time).

However, the posts above show that cups and balls routines can still be original. One presentation that I have toyed with (although I make no claim to originality) is to use the cups and balls in a mind magic routine. Introduce the cups and balls, commenting on their popularity in magic, but explain that you plan to do something slightly different. Place one cup infront of each spectator and ask them to name aloud a number between one and five (a free choice). 'With no funny moves' (ahem) you can lift up the cups to show that they have named the correct number of balls for their cup.

I don't think it's actually an issue Cragglecat. As giznorm said, the number of people who have actually seen a good cups and balls routine, however traditional, is not actually that big I wouldn't think. I suspect most people are more familiar with them from the ones they had in children's magic sets, in which case a slick, well practiced routine is still going to impress them.

I think as a magician, unless someone comes up with something really quite different or original (Jiggernaut for example, although I expect Mark Jenest was hardly the first person to do cups and balls with a spirit measure), I actually get more annoyed when people try to imply originality but it is dismally lacking. "All the other magicians do this with 3 cups, I however do it with 4" etc... let's face it, however it's presented, the same thing is happening - the balls are appearing and disappearing under the cups, and there might be "a surprise" under the cup/s at the end. How "original" can you really make that? "Everyone else did it with lemons, I was the first one to use a potato..." - come on

I bought Jiggernaut and it's not for me. I have to admit that it's a nice concept but may not suit everyone.

One of the good points is that it packs small and jiggers are very cheap on ebay.

The bad point for me is having to wear a PK r***

An interesting discussion so far.

I do like the Ricky Jay routine but even this seems to have been highly influenced by the Vernon routine. Not that I mean to be critical, it's great.

The Tommy Wonder routine is probably my favourite routine that I've seen to date but I don't like the cup through cup and wand through cup penetrations - they just feel a bit naff to me.

The Jason Lattimer routine is very original but does nothing for me. Without wishing to be rude about an obviously talented performer I find it a bit boring but this is just a personal preference.

As Farlsborough said I guess there is only so much you can do with a cup and ball routine. I think what most disturbed me most about my trawl through you tube was the sheer number of people using exactly the same patter (and again, I include myself in this). This is not just restricted to cup and balls. Is it the fault of video and the temptation to parrot other performers?!

Anyway, I guess I will stop worrying about this but I'm definitely going to try to say something a bit more interesting in my own presentation in the future - don't know what yet though, if I eliminate the usual stuff I'll be stuck for material

Craig.