talkmagic.co.uk

Randy wrote:Let me get this straight. Do you use the presentation of making it LOOK like a Psychological force? Or do you ACTUALLY use a Psychological force with the ID?

If it's the 2nd one, then you have completed botched the effect and ruined it. if it's the first, than I guess that's OK.. Though the idea of the ID is that they have a free choice.

Its the first.

I use NO actual psychological force with an ID, but it looks like I do.

tom - next time, try a real psyche force with the ID...because you'll be right regardless...but its a way of practicing the force with a normal(ish) person and noting the results...

bmat wrote:But why would you want your audience to think you made them think of something? To me, (and maybe only me) that makes no sense, there is no magic or mentalism in that, unless of course it is reversed and the audience is going to reveal the prediction, and then what is the performer doing on the stage?

Am I missing the point? perhaps.

of course thats mentalism! through the power of the mind, or of sheer thought alone you have caused someone, or MADE someone think of something...

now I'm confused...why wouldnt you label that as mentalism?

In that case, why use an ID? Why not just use the same method and same presentation with a normal deck.

Having them think you forced them to choose whatever card in the deck, just completely takes all the impact and improbability out of the entire effect, and makes it rather ho-hum. It's no longer entertaining, and is now just a puzzle, not a very good puzzle, but a puzzle. One that is only mildly interesting at best.

Eshly wrote:

Randy wrote:Let me get this straight. Do you use the presentation of making it LOOK like a Psychological force? Or do you ACTUALLY use a Psychological force with the ID?

If it's the 2nd one, then you have completed botched the effect and ruined it. if it's the first, than I guess that's OK.. Though the idea of the ID is that they have a free choice.

Its the first.

I use NO actual psychological force with an ID, but it looks like I do.

how do the people watching know what a psychological force "looks like"?

If you are explaining the concept of a psychological force, isn't that exposure?

Can you describe your actual presentation?

Randy wrote:Having them think you forced them to choose whatever card in the deck, just completely takes all the impact and improbability out of the entire effect, and makes it rather ho-hum. It's no longer entertaining, and is now just a puzzle, not a very good puzzle, but a puzzle. One that is only mildly interesting at best.

I believe Eshly has a thing about it not wanting to look like a magic trick... therefor giving some sort of over-exagerated false psych force will make the audience believe he's planted the thought of card in the spec's head.

The sad thing is, many audience members will think that anyway, without the silly false force because everything else he's doing is mental ( ) .... except this time they'd credit him even more because they couldn't spot it.

There again, I might be wrong... if he's desperate to get away from it looking like a 'mundane' magic trick... why use playing cards?

Why would you want it to look like you forced them? I'm with Randy and bmat, I don't see anything interesting or even puzzling about knowingly being led to a specific card in a deck.

Van_der_Belt wrote:

Randy wrote:Having them think you forced them to choose whatever card in the deck, just completely takes all the impact and improbability out of the entire effect, and makes it rather ho-hum. It's no longer entertaining, and is now just a puzzle, not a very good puzzle, but a puzzle. One that is only mildly interesting at best.

I believe Eshly has a thing about it not wanting to look like a magic trick... therefor giving some sort of over-exagerated false psych force will make the audience believe he's planted the thought of card in the spec's head.

The sad thing is, many audience members will think that anyway, without the silly false force because everything else he's doing is mental ( ) .... except this time they'd credit him even more because they couldn't spot it.

There again, I might be wrong... if he's desperate to get away from it looking like a 'mundane' magic trick... why use playing cards?

But then that still ruins it and no longer makes it look good anymore. Over complicating the presentation is pretty much a good way to ruin something. Hell, even Derren Brown (His Hero). Knows this and doesn't over complicate his presentations at all.

remove the idea that its an ID, then consider it...

unless I'm missing something (easily done) - but to be seen as if you are someone influencing someone to name a particular card could easily be presented as mentalism...

Demitri wrote:Why would you want it to look like you forced them? I'm with Randy and bmat, I don't see anything interesting or even puzzling about knowingly being led to a specific card in a deck.

Mind control seems like a suitable presentation for a mentalist. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your television set. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to... The Outer Limits.

Ofcourse it can, but I love the selection process they go through. It allows for subtle nuonces and conversation and doesn't resort to the tired old "Name any card" line.

Its like when you want to predict a three digit number with a s***i; instead of asking them for all the digits at once, you ask them to name one digit at a time. It looks better.

I'm not denying it's mentalism, I just think in that using an overly obvious fake psych force you take away the magic of the ID. They 'know' how you did it. They'll chuckle perhaps, maybe congrat you on being clever.... but that's it. Make it unfathomable to them and they'll come to whatever conclusions they want and still feel mystified.

This is getting silly. Nobody else is subject to this much scrutiny. You have decided that Tom's fake psych. force is silly, but nobody here has seen him perform it. If You have, by all means complain- but I have a sneaky suspicion nobody else would get this much of a fuss made about their decision.
Debate is very healthy... but sometimes...

Eshly wrote:Its like when you want to predict a three digit number with a s***i; instead of asking them for all the digits at once, you ask them to name one digit at a time. It looks better.

It's nothing of the sort..... if I use some obvious fake psychobabble to get them to their card, they 'know' how I did it, because, as you said, the audience knows it's a force!

If I um and ah over each number on a swami effect, they saw and heard me do it, but they don't know how.

Eshly wrote:I love the selection process they go through

You may well do, but do they?

And so ends my contribution to this thread. Thank you, good night, much love.