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the stackman wrote:it is akin to him asking the best way to travel 100 yards and us suggesting that he builds a hovercraft.

Reply of the week!

Robmonster wrote:

the stackman wrote:it is akin to him asking the best way to travel 100 yards and us suggesting that he builds a hovercraft.

Reply of the week!

If only it were true eh?

The question was regarding the best way to separate reds and blacks in front of a spectator. Clearly this is a stripper deck. After that you're talking technique, and depending on the person and their ability with their digits, some techniques will come easy and some won't. Each technique however, will take time to master. I favoured the cull. I think that when you angle separate it looks like you're counting the cards. Looks odd. Is your brother Charlie Babbitt?

That's my opinion of course but you know what? Forums of this nature were created so people could express their opinions and not be told that said opinion - when it is valid - is 'brainless'. This isn't a Daily Mail letters page.

I've never seen the angle spearation performed in person, only on The Devils Picturebook DVD by Derren Brown. It looks very good there, but feels awkward in my hards. The Great Divide feels much more comfortable for me, and you can afford to be a little bit messier with it.

A friend showed me the 1-2 separation but it seemed to take a long time, and require a lot of passes through the deck, to achieve the separation.

If one can already cull, then culling the deck into reds and blacks is probably one of the better methods since there is no obvious displacement of the cards. You would not have to do it all in a single pass, two or even three would probably not arouse suspicion if done while chatting. It would look just like you are absent-mindedly spreading the cards.

Learning to cull purely to perform OOTW is indeed probably overkill, but if you can already do it then it is a good method for the separation. If you cannot already do it then I personally feel it is one of those sleights that can be put to a great many uses and is worth learning. Once you can cull a four of a kind it's only a small step to culling half the pack.

Rob

Grimshaw wrote:That's my opinion of course but you know what? Forums of this nature were created so people could express their opinions and not be told that said opinion - when it is valid - is 'brainless'. This isn't a Daily Mail letters page.

well someone has asked for a method to achieve something very simple and an unnecessarily complex solution. i cordially point this out and then find myself met with

'OH! Heaven forbid that you have to spend time learning something. According to this a deck switch is the only way to go ... Not!

(What kind of attitude is this? Why not spend time and practice something new? Is this the impatient generation? Buy the DVD, view it once and go out table hopping!!!)'

which is quite an assumption to make about someone that he has never met. therefore invalid. therefore brainless.

Can we please avoid making personal insults?

certainly. i withdraw all statements made that could be considered in anyway confrontational.

gunnarkr and grimshaw are completely correct. i was suggesting that anything difficult should be avoided. i am a Ellusionist addict. my philosophy is that you should pick up some of brad christian's excellent, competitively priced products, watch them once and go out table hopping. i don't for a single second think that you should spend time practising new techniques.

chriss angel is my hero and a deck switch is the only way to go.

It's OK Stack, get it all out of your system.

Just for the record both gunnarkr and grimshaw are known to be solid students of magic who most ceretainly do put the time and effort into their stuff before anyone else sees it. We similarly despair at the attitude of 'have to perform the latest must have dingus 3 minutes after the box has been opened'!

Before this thread stands in danger of being locked, I was trying to point out Mr. Stackman, that I thought your branding of gunnarkr's post as brainless was a little aggressive for this forum. We're here to discuss, not name call.

It seems with your previous two posts, laden with a biting sarcasm and delivered with the kind of attitude that will surely precipitate a heart condition, that an aggressive delivery is your style. Its unfortunate, as the best discussions are never carried out in that manner.

I think we now need to focus on the original question and agree that individual opinions are equally valid - what works for one might not work for another.

Or should we let this thread 'take a break' for a while?

Not sure if I've read this or spoken with somebody about this idea... it's a little bold, but if presented right could work.

Literally split the cards into one pile of red and black (face down) in front of the spectator under the guise of another effect. Does it really need to be achieved through sleights? Fan the cards towards you, looking at the spectator intently. Upjog a few cards through the deck (all red) and pull them out and table them face down. Keep doing this until all the reds are on the table. Then keep doing it for the blacks. Make a little theatre out of this, like you are trying to "read" the spectator - take a few back that you've tabled shaking your head and quietly saying "not right" to yourself. This can all be done very quickly - the spectator does not know what you are doing and they will grow intrigued as to what's coming next.

Then present something totally unconnected. I'd probably go for an impossible effect (ie: something with a small chance of success) and ham it up. Like a bold ACAAN. You could also do a simple "memorised deck" chosen card location. This is just a staging routine...

Point is, retain the order, but pass the time. This is all about bold presentation.


Just some thoughts,
G

i am of the opinion that there is very little in card magic that cannot be achieved with a little forward planning and presentation, negating the requirement for the sophisticated sleight of hand i had spent a decade perfecting (including the cull); call it a 'scarne on card tricks' approach if you will.

so the original poster has two options.

if someone is asking how to separate the colours, it is quite unlikely that they already know how to cull, so recommending what is essentially a post-graduate course in the skill might not be the best way to go.

alternatively, if you wish, i will pm you an old (and i mean really old) method where, from a borrowed, shuffled deck you can, in full view of the spectators, arrange the deck into red and blacks without anyone being aware of the fact apart from you.

its an old idea occasionally mentioned by tamariz and more recently pit hartling in his book 'card fictions'.

cheers,

stack.

by the way, i have noticed that the first paragraph of my previous post has been edited out.

Hi Stackman,

I missed your post sorry - I can cull a card quite well, but not half a deck at a decent and smooth pace. I usually use it to bring a four of a kind to the top.

Indeed, if you have a method you would PM me, I'm interrested.

Thanks
LP.

ok......

Maybe I am being thick here, but If separating the colours for an o.o.t.w is an issue, you have 4 ways to solve this issue.

1.. the route your going down,try to find a method. Many good answers above to choose from.

2. a deck switch, which understandably isnt ideal.It works though.

3. Start your routine with O.O.T.W. this way you can have it set up, then do some false Shfls and C*ts.

4.. research and learn one or two of the versions of the effect that are done with a borrowed, and shuffled deck. There are many out there. Ammar has one. And they are good and strong.