talkmagic.co.uk

Jae wrote:I'm an insomniac too but I have age and a job with no set times on my side as an excuse rather than a PlayStation and 'puter.

Me too! You're lucky with your job - I'm still at school and, although I'm not really tired during the day, can't change the hours round to suit. Oh well. It does, however, give me a good excuse to leave homeork until the last night. hehehe.

JackWright wrote:Absolutely not, but my point was that, as opposed to simply saying either 'no, we can't tell you that' or 'yes, I've PM'd you' and telling them roughly how it was done (e.g. 'technology'), some members of the forum misinterprited his query as secret-seeking and responded accordingly. My understanding of Neil's request was not that he was looking to try and perform such an effect without actually purchasing it, but simply to get the jist of how it was done. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what specific effort would be needed on the part of Neil in order to aquire the, frankly, very simply information he requested?

I would agree that Neil and Cardza's conversation was interesting, but when it gets to the point where patronising and completely irrelevant lectures are being made about elitism and one is required to back up one's (subsequently revised) post with insomniac tendancies, then the 'fun' really must stop.

If we review to Neil's first post we would see:

neilcuk wrote:for us lay people who know it's magic, know it's not really as spectacular as it seems, and know a few techniques from reading his book and other sites, is there some resource where we can find out how these tricks, or similar renditions of them, are done?

here he is clearly not hunting for secrets, but simply a resource from which he can learn. It was the later posts by other members the created the dispute in the first place.

Now I would really prefer this thread to get back on-topic so pehaps you'd like to PM me and we can continue this elswhere?

None of it was completely irrelevant. I was completely aware that neil wasn't after secrets for free. My point was that Derren's material is, quite often, advanced and requires previous background to fully comprehend it. I know some of the people who devised/popularised said techniques and I'm not going to just tell a 'layperson' where they can get hold of these techniques just because they're curious; I respect the creators and the techniques, as well as all the working pros using them, too much to do that.

This then lead to comments about elitism, when that quite simply wasn't the case.

And yes, when you don't get enough sleep you do tend to be quite grouchy and irritable (see work into the Expectation Fulfillment Theory of Dreaming if you don't believe me). My lack of sleep doesn't mean the discussion has to end, rather that I wrote it in an irritable state and simply revised it when I was less irritable.

JackWright wrote:
My understanding of Neil's request was not that he was looking to try and perform such an effect without actually purchasing it, but simply to get the jist of how it was done.

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what specific effort would be needed on the part of Neil in order to aquire the, frankly, very simply information he requested?

You've answered your own question young man... "I dont want to do it myself... I am just curious to know how you do it..."

If you care to read more carefully, I am not debating the tone of replies to Neilcuk's question. that is a seperate issue.

neilcuk wrote:
is there some resource where we can find out how these tricks, or similar renditions of them, are done?

Neilcuk, As I have not seen DB's current show, I am unable to point you toward a source of information where you could learn how these SPECIFIC effects are created. I would imagine however no single source would cover everything.

If you are keen to study this specific area, a very helpful post exists here that can point you in the right direction to get started:
http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic11429.php

If on the other hand, you simply want a "free hit" at "how it's done" without the effort of doing your own research... why? people who know, had to work hard for their knowledge, they are unlikely to offer it up for free to satisfy one's curiosity. I dont imagine anyone here means any "personal critisism"... It's nothing personal, It's someone's intellectual property... in this case that of Derren Brown. If he wanted us to know everything, he would have included it in his book... I am sure you can understand that.

Alternatively, just ask JackWright... apparently he knows everything about Derren LOL!

neilcuk wrote:for us lay people who know it's magic, know it's not really as spectacular as it seems, and know a few techniques from reading his book and other sites, is there some resource where we can find out how these tricks, or similar renditions of them, are done?

Again I would stress that neilcuk was simply asking from what resources he could learn how an effect was produced. If you are so elitist, and that is the right word for such people, as to not even tell people where they could find the resources to purchase in order to learn a specific effect then the whole ideas of magic shops is trivial.
I'm not going to comment on this thread anymore, but I have one final point to make. It is as follows.
The fraternity and it's members are shooting themselves in the foot when they aquire such an attitude whereby they see themselves as above so-called newbies to the art. If you think that by behaving in such a way you will be able to strengthen the fraternity they you're kidding yourselves. It may very well be that Neil could have begun an interest in magic simply because you directed him to the required resource, but instead he has been denied this chance. This attitude leads to a place whereby no people new to magic ever get above the stage of performing pathetic tricks from boxes bought in ASDA, because the elitist members think that they're somehow defending the art by denying newer members the chance to learn from the resources they did.
Well, I for one have had enough of this attitude and am subsequently leaving the forum. I would apologise to those members who try not to act like this and actually want to help newcomers. I would also take the time to thank the moderators for their effort in maintaining talkmagic and putting up with the attitudes of some of the members (such as Mark Lewis) simply because they're supposedly respected magicians.

I would urge all of you yet to be bitten by the elitist bug to not take a superior and condecending attitude towards the little guy. Ultimately it's you who will suffer the consequences. Goodbye.

No, Jack, you listen to this: It's NOT elitism. I have helped people with a sincere interest before, in the open forums and by PM, directing them to the classics. What I saw here was a 'layperson' expressing no desire to become a performer, just a curious person with an interest in secrets.

Do you honestly think that it helps the art to direct such people to the more advanced materials then? If you do, I'm quite honestly glad you're leaving the forum.

neilcuk wrote:oh I'm not interested in performing it. i just want to know how it's done

Why? Knowing how never makes it any better, you know.

So, getting back on topic, what about Derren's 2007 Tour?

Mandrake wrote:So, getting back on topic, what about Derren's 2007 Tour?

I liked it

That says it all for me !

Looks like Derren Brown comes to Bristol on 17th June!

Just caught up watching his stuff on 4oD. I can't believe some of it to be honest, it's mind blowing (well to me it is anyway)

I'll def be buying tickets

Get is as quickly as you can, the show is usually sold out months ahead.

I saw Derren for the 3rd time last month, and thought he was excellent.

I too got to stand on his head when he laid in broken glass last year. If you need to travel to get to the show it's worth it!

Jamie

Derren Brown tickets are sold out for Bristol!

x2 Tickets on eBay are going for around £150+! So dissapointed.....

I got picked to be part of the show in Bradford. It was the part for the 20 questions bit. I had written 'parrot'. He said to me 'is it dangerous?' and i couldnt keep a straight face. Mine certainly is!!!! ROFL . When he went to stick the sticker on me, he got quite embaressed (as i have quite a large chest ) It gave the audience quite a laugh, which i wasnt expecting

I went to see DB last night in Northampton the show was amazing.

On thinking about the trick I think I can work out some methods of how they might be done apart from two of them. These are the floating stall and the numbers trick at the end.

However, he did the numbers trick so fast I wasn't sure what was happening. Was it as follows?

He selected someone from the audience? (how did he select them?)
They wrote down a 3 digit number?
They passed it behind and they wrote a further 3 digit numbers?
And then passed it behind to the final person who added 3 digit number and then added them all up?

Is this what happened?

I am sure that as he was doing the trick so fast that something else was happening. Not to give the trick away but was there anything else that happened when he was doing this, even if it doesn't seem to related?

Am I allowed to ask that question?