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I'm glad it helped. I know that some people seem to swear to the DL, but there are some that I think just get blinded by it. As for alternatives, you'll come across some. I mean I use doubles but I don't aquire them using a DL, I might load a palmed card behind another for instance. I know that's a little vauge but it's just a for instance.

As for a top change, I'd say it's a slightly different kettle of fish. True it does have to contact the deck, but normally it's done on an off beat and in the motion of brushing the cards together or past eachother in a gesturing manner, at least when I do it. A DL though is normally done with attention on it, for instance "We take the top card".

Anyway, I'm glad it helped.

Looks like ive gotta put rrtcm down and move onto expert card technique lol

BrucUK, that link is a gold mine, having looked at the resources there I see that I've barely scratched the surface with my DLs...

Particularly revealing was the comment that one method is laughed at behind performers backs. That was the method I use... well not anymore, now I have alternatives to work on!

-Stacy

Actually I think palming anything is the sleight most non magicians know about. I haven't come across too many that have heard of a DL. I also agree that the problem with a DL is that you show the top card, then have to turn over the card and place it back on the deck only to pick it up again. Alas, keep studying your magic because their is a way around that too. I just can't remember where it is, but with a little misdirection your spectator will never know that you made contact with the top of the deck again.

I like the Double, I find it very use full. I agree with the pass though many people get hung up on it when really it is not really needed. Of course I also believe that too many people get so hung up on method and that it has to be perfect to the point where many don't actually perform. I think it should be the other way around, go out and perform first. Use a svengali deck or something of that ilk and as you get comfortable performing the sleights will become easier because you will realize that if you perform well, you can get away with a lot more. And as you get away with a lot more you will perform more, and as you perform more your sleights will get better. It is an interesting circle, I just think people start at the wrong spot in that circle.

This has turned into a thread with alot of good advice !

I'd say the top known moves are palming followed by a dl.

On the party animal 2 dvd i think he does a dl to a group of blokes and they say "and whats the 2nd card you turned over as well ?" lol.

Just a quick line, to suggest Greg Wilson's 'Double Take' DVD as an excellent learning resource, too - very highly-recommended.

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I wouldn't be able to survive without the DL.

When I'm performing CTW I always start with one and then once their card has been lost in the pack I palm and do the deed while they shuffle the pack.

The DL is the most important tool for me in my card magic.

Alec

Alec Kobain wrote:I wouldn't be able to survive without the DL.

The DL is the most important tool for me in my card magic.

Thats what i think as well im just wondering now after this thread if theres better ways of doing it

jon_kent wrote:

Alec Kobain wrote:I wouldn't be able to survive without the DL.

The DL is the most important tool for me in my card magic.

Thats what i think as well im just wondering now after this thread if theres better ways of doing it

The absolute best way is the way that suits you.

DAMMIT im so confused ! lol

I will continue to work on my dl as most of my tricks need it but maybe on my journey on magic i'll find a sneakier way of doing it lol

"The mind is like a parachute, it works best when its open"

Hey like I've said, I'm not knocking double lifts. They're been around forever for a reason. My issue was that people seem to get to the point where Jon is at where lots of their tricks involve them because many beginner tricks do, but instead of progressing onwards, they hit a wall and seems to think that the magical world revolves around this move which I think is wrong and a bad thing, especially for beginners. People should learn it and practice it, but no more than any other sleight. There are more useful sleights out there.

Yes performance is the most important thing, but that's not really what's being discussed here and yes with some nice misdirection you could get away with murder, but what I was talking about was how people get so caught up in one sleight that really isn't as important as they think.

Alec, I can't really comment on your magic as I've never seen it just like you or anyone here I doubt could comment on mine, but I'm sure if you really thought about it, the DL probably isn't your most important sleight. As for the other comment made here about not many people hearing of the DL, I'm pretty sure that's dependent on where you're from. I know you're from a different country than me so I couldn't comment, but it's definatly not like a diagonal palm shift which I'm guessing no one non magical has heard of. You mention the pass though and how you don't really find that nessasary. I'd probably say it's more useful than a DL and where as a DL will eventually draw peoples attention to the guilty double card, a pass can be and is ment to be done under misdirection. I do stand by it though that a pass is similar in that it get's over practiced. Well over practiced is a bad way to put it, more put on too high of a pedistool.

I would like to appologise to the starter of this thread, from what I ment to just be a one time post about my views of this sleight, it has seemed to stray off topic a little.

Dont apologise mate this has turned into a informative thread

Dear oh dear.

Now we are complaining that a DL is illogical because it requires you to turn the card face down on the deck????Seriously????

This is magician's paralysis by over analysis at the extreme maximum.The DL is a time tested sleight that has lasted longer than any other of today's crappy magic could hope.It is without any doubt the single most important sleight that any card worker can learn.It is a trick itself.Changing one card to another with one simple sleight is an extremely powerful effect especially if it's done in the spectator's hands.

In the right hands the move is 100% undetectable even if done many of times, even if you over use it.

What's next?The Glide is illogical because you turn the deck face down?????Well maybe it is but it still works.When tricks are made most of the time a small part of logicality has to be sacrificed for the sake of method.If the trick is routined and structured properly then it will fly by the keenest of spectators(Which even a sloppy enough DL will).

I'm sorry if this post is a little abrasive but this type of thinking has limited a lot of my magic over the years until I went out and performed in the real world.

I think you're going a little over the top stating that it's the single most important sleight don't you think?

If it works for you that's fine. I don't like to use it. I think that it's illogical and so I've worked around it. It's not limited my magic and I perform in the "real world".

I think you've misunderstood what I've been saying. I guess I have slated the move a bit and I'd expect the people who use it often to want to defend it, you're probably one of the people I mentioned that put what I would consider too much time into a minor move and so it only seems natural to want to defend all that effort. What I was saying is that I think that some people get too caught up in it that they forget that there are other possibly more important sleights out there that would better warrent the time practicing. Also if you've read my posts you'll see that in most if not all I've said to still learn it and that it's obviously not a total waste as it's been around for a very long time.

Maybe instead of writing an abrasive post, just think of what you're saying and what others have said instead of jumoing the gun. I'm not writing that in an angry way so there's no need for an angry responce. Everyones different so people might not agree with what I think, but it's worked out very well for me and my magic so it's not wrong, equally there are magicians that do use it that do well so that's not wrong either. I was simply explaining my views on how I just think a DL isn't as important as some might think, not that they should just tear that page out of their magic book and use it for toilet paper.

Sorry for the response if it sounded harsh.I just re-read it there and it does look like a post that belongs to the Magic cafe.To me it is definetly the most important sleight in my card magic repitoire.I guess everyone is different and you are entitled to your opinion.You may make a career doing card magic and never use the sleight but I think that only hampers you in the run of things.

I get a bit annoyed when I read posts from people being very nit picky about tried and tested things.I can think of multiple examples.Also I know from the forum that you are a worker so I was in no way trying to belittle you with the real world comment.Just don't say another bad world about my precious DL again and we can be friends